BET’s Top 25 Events that Mis-shaped Black America

25. The Jheri Curl

24. Hurricane Katrina

23. The N-Word

22. CoIntelPro

21. Elvis

20. Negative Hip-Hop

19. Bling-Bling

18. Welfare

17. The American Prison System

16. Light Skin Blacks vs. Dark Skin Blacks

15. Ward Connerly

14. The US Supreme Court

13. Ronad Reagan/ Reaganomics

12. The Burning of Black Wall Street

11. Soul Food

10. Gangs

9. Hollywood

8. The Deaths of Malcolm X & MLK

7. Blacks that glorify stupidity

6. The KKK

5. Apartheid/Segregation

4. Religion


2. Drugs

1. Slavery

Do You Think that this is a pretty complete list?

Random Thought of the Moment: “Damn this is a long ass list.”

The Song of the Moment: “Fight the Power” by Public Enemy.

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129 Responses to BET’s Top 25 Events that Mis-shaped Black America

  1. pserendipity says:

    So, what category did BET put themselves in?

  2. brran1 says:

    LOL. The way BET has been operating these past 7-8 years, I’d group them with number 7. But hey, that’s just my opinion.

  3. a.tiara says:

    Um they forgot Flavor of Love and I love New York lol But I guess that would also go with #7

  4. dirtyred says:

    Yep. They pretty much covered it.

    One thing though.

    Did you say BET conducted this survey?
    If they did, ain’t this sorta like the pot calling the kettle black?

  5. *Coop* says:

    @pserendipity – That’s exactly what I was thinking. How ’bout they (BET) need to be numbers 1 – 25 and 26.

  6. Marwan says:

    they forgot to mention integration, web dubois, and the naacp

  7. Marwan says:

    also black fraternities

  8. brran1 says:

    I agree with NAACP based on their recent actions, but why the other 3?

  9. Marwan says:

    web dubois was the beggest apponent of Marcus Garvey. he help sabotage his movement. he also endorsed the first abortion clinic in harlem under margerett sanger’s “negro project” which planned the extermination of the black race. the naacp was founded by all white jews to take control of the movements of the black race, and the sabotage ppl like marcus garvey. web dubious was recruited to be a member and he also wanted to keep the talented tenth from the likes of Garvey. and black fraternities recruit the black elite to suppress the masses of blacks and uphold white supremacy. its actually much more than this.

  10. Marwan says:

    they’re actually called the boule

  11. brran1 says:

    I don’t disagree with you, however I believe that some of your info is slightly off. DuBois believed in Pan-Africanism, while Garvey (not discounting his contributions to The Civil Rights Movement) actually met with one of the higher ups in the KKK and claimed that they were friends of black people. The NAACP was founded by African Americans, and then later on, Jews joined. And I don’t believe Fraternities recruit the black elite, but then again, Someone who is apart of a BGLO would be better able to respond to this portion of your comment.

  12. brran1 says:

    Do you still believe that ‘Separate But Equal’ should still be in place?

  13. miss_eddy says:

    Any list that has “Bling bling” as an item or “Jheri Curl” as an item can not be a factual list. BET is #7.

    Also regarding black fraternities and sororities recruiting the black elite, all of these organizations were started on college campuses with college educated people. In the 1900s if you were in college you were already considered “elite”. If you were starting a college based organization, wouldn’t you start with college students? The whole idea that it was to supress the masses and uphold white supremacy is garbage.

  14. Ras Judah says:

    BET is definitely giving itself a free pass. They need to hold themselves accountable for promoting some of the very things they seem to be condemning here. Marwan is telling the Truth about WEB Dubois and the NAACP (Check how the NAACP fought Dr. King when he spoke out against the Vietnam war!). We need more emphasis on Marcus Garvey. He was a true revolutionary, not an atheistic communist propagandist like Dubois. Personally, I would list abortion and capitalism as ranking 2nd and 3rd after slavery. The African American population in the U.S. is around 13%, and yet 45% of all Black pregnancies end in abortion. Malcolm and Dr. King would never have tolerated this genocide. And it is no coincidence that just a few short years after their murders, Babylon (America) legalized this genocidal plot of abortion conveniently marketed as “choice.” But don’t look to Babylon or its media outlets (i.e. BET) to tell us the whole Truth. As Bob Marley said, “Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds.”

  15. brran1 says:

    I definitely agree that BET should be apart of this list b/c at the least, they have promoted some of the things on this list (within the past 5-10 years). I couldn’t agree with you more when it comes to Marcus Garvey, I personally don’t agree with some of the tactics he used. But hey, what do I know? I still need to do more research. What should an all encompassing list include?

  16. pserendipity says:

    As a proud member of a Black Greek Sorority, I have to go with miss_eddy and call bullsh*t on that comment. nothing in the history that I learned was based on suppressing masses and upholding white supremacy. It was ALL about uplifting and serving the community. The BLACK community. And it still is.

  17. Marwan says:

    jane adams was one of the founders of the naacp. it had jewish presidents until 1975. some of the jewish and white founders include according to the book “broken alliance” by Jonathan Kaufman, Several prominent Jews, including America’s leading Reform rabbi, Stephen Wise, were among the founders of the NAACP in 1909. Joel Spingarn, an English professor at Columbia, became the NAACP’s chairman in 1914 and served off and on in that role until his death in 1939. His brother, Arthur Spingarn, headed the NAACP’s legal struggle; he drew upon the expertise of Jewish legal scholar Felix Frankfurter. The head of the American Jewish Committee, Louis Marshall, argued on behalf of the NAACP before the Supreme Court. web dubious abandoned his own niagra movement, which was founded by dubious in 1905, to join the white controlled naacp and write for their publication, the crisis. the naacp was founded by whites in 1909 and incorporated in 1911, 6 years later. its founding had nothing to do with black ppl but to control the thinking and direction of black ppl. they used blacks as a catalyst to get certain legislation passed in congress that heightened the power of jews in the US, specifically the civil rights act which did very little for black men and women but tons for white women, gays and jews. integration utterly destroyed the economic base of the black community.

  18. Marwan says:

    its true that garvey met with the higher ups of the kkk and said he’d rather have them around then the liberal whites and uncle toms like dubois because at least he know where they stand and they want Garvery to go back to Africa and be amongst their own. dubious was more concerned with integration to see the bigger picture. Garvey started a system of transatlantic trade between africa and the diaspora. he called it the black star line, a network of 5 steam ships he purchased form government surplus in which he sponsored by selling $5 stock to average black. dubious was not the father of pan africanism. is one of the biggest enemies of it, along with other negroes such as a philip randolf. do some research. and it was gay edgar hoover, the same man who brought down the black power movement of the 50’s and 60’s with cointelpro, who took down Garvey in the 1920, with the help of negroes such as dubious. on this webpage, dubious called garvey ” W.E.B. Du Bois called Garvey the most dangerous enemy of the Negro race …”

  19. Marwan says:

    black ppl were much better off during segregation so I do believe separate but equal should still in place. anyone who disagrees knows very little about history.

  20. Marwan says:

    what exactly have the black elite done to uplift the masses of Black ppl? if Im not mistaken but all the real movements were started by the lower fed up class of blacks and upplity negroes were sent to infiltrate and change their direction. for example, the lynching of emmit till lead to the spirit of the civil rights movement. the uppity trained negroes such as Rosa parks and MLK were sent to infiltrate and change that direction from justice and anti lynching to holding hands and integration, which lead to the civil rights movements that benefited everyone but blacks. in the very beginning of the black fraternities, which were modelled after the skill and bones society of yale university, dubious and the other toms were used to divert the masses of black ppl from the very prominent Marcus Garvey movement and to integration back with the slave masters. but I would like to know what exactly are uppity-paid-off negroes doing or have done to sincerely uplift the masses of Black ppl. BET was founded by a black frat member/slave and look ata the damage its done.

  21. Marwan says:

    I think integration should be on the list because it completely destroyed out economic base and power. it caused the uppity negro elites to freely move to the white community. it caused blacks to be able to give all their money to white ppl, outside their own community. we were more united and prosperous during segregation. our families were stronger and our communities were safer. compare Black wallstreet of the early 1900’s during segregation to the blacks condition in america in 2008 during integration. and now we don’t see the white man as the enemy anymore, even though he has more power over us today than ever, but we see each other as the enemy and seek them as our own allies. look at all the black women begging white men to date and marry them. a complete abomination.

  22. brran1 says:

    Firstly, I never said that DuBois was the father of Pan-Africanism, I said that he was a follower.

    Secondly, You are true that certain persons of Jewish decent were involved with the founding of The NAACP. However, it was not used as a means to control the thinking and direction of black people…It was founded under the premise of equality for all.

    Thirdly, It is true that DuBois was a person that believed that in integration. His assimilation into a culture that was not his own, paved the way for others to do the same.

    When does it matter if one is “uppity trained” as you mentioned or is not of the same ilk? BLACK IS BLACK IS BLACK. Just because they may not have done things the same way that Garvey or others did, does not discredit their contributions to the Civil Rights movement, regardless of who started what.

    How do you believe that blacks were better off during segregation? As a person that seems to be well versed in History, you should know that ‘Separate But Equal’ was in fact separate, but far from being equal. People wanted to integrate not because they wanted to get in good with whites, but because they wanted the same things that whites had (safe neighborhoods, good schools, etc.) that were denied to them because of the color of their skin.

    Back in the day, I believe that part of the reason why we had a somewhat strong economic base was because we were prevented from going elsewhere. I do believe that in order to strengthen our community, all black people should invest in, and buy from black businesses. However, why should we as a people only buy from black businesses? If I see something I want to purchase, I will buy it, regardless of what type of store it’s in.

  23. Ladyt says:

    list is sad but so true……lord, my black ppl. (THE PISS OFF 1000)

  24. brran1 says:

    And what would you consider to be an “uppity negro?”

  25. Ebolottie says:

    First and Foremost BET belongs with number 7…And You know Sometimes being educated about a history of someting can be a sign of true ignorance. Im not saying what you’re saying is incorrect but please dont base your opinions about history based on your personal feelings. Understandable what happened back then happened…But if you really understood the just of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr’s fight you would know why he fought for intergration. We were segregated but never equal back then. If you remember we were not able to be in the same section as them and got treated different and truth be toild there was more death in segregation than intergration. So please do us a favor and leave your beliefs of your world of seperate but equal in your imagination, because being seperate but equal could never be. And as far as the Black greek Life, If im not mistaken, they were created to teach us to stand for what we believe in, to help one another and look out for our own community, because if we did not no one else would. It was created to make us feel like we belonged to something greater than ourselves and to show that WE as BLACK people could come against everything that people made us out to be negative, and defeat a stereotype. So this white supermacy BS dont make since, so please leave your one sided views of what you feel BLACK GREEK LIFE is to yourself if you dont fully understand the cause or just of what it was created for. And by the way, it doesnt matter who started what, if it was created to better our people, why feel or view it as a negative perspective???

  26. Marwan says:

    from brran1:

    “How do you believe that blacks were better off during segregation? As a person that seems to be well versed in History, you should know that ‘Separate But Equal’ was in fact separate, but far from being equal. People wanted to integrate not because they wanted to get in good with whites, but because they wanted the same things that whites had (safe neighborhoods, good schools, etc.) that were denied to them because of the color of their skin.”

    in most cases during segregation, black institutions and communities were in fact safer and more prosperous than white communities. that lead to hatred and jealousy by most whites which ultimately lead to the many race riots throughout the US, most famous were Tulsa Oklahoma, Chicago and Rosewood FL. blacks were only lead to believe the grass was greener on the other side because of uncle tom leaders such as dubious, MLK, the naacp, which had white and jewish presidents until 1975 and many others. we see how much destruction and dysfunction have been caused to the Black community ever since.

  27. Marwan says:

    well before integration, there were less black men in prison, less broken homes, lest bastard children, millions less abortions, black women had more dignity and they supported the black man and the black family and community was very prosperous and proud. look at us today. and why do we always measure our worth to white ppl. who are they to be equal too? they’re the scurge of the planet earth. they promote degredation, homosexuality, bestiality, prostitution, porn, nigga rap, wars, etc. if you think you’re nothing unless you’re equal to them than you’ll never be nothing. in order to be truely be equal to them in this society is to hold the same power as them and that, you uppity negroes, is something you never hope to obtain. its against your loyalty and oath to them.

  28. Marwan says:

    what exactly have you black greeks done for your so-called ppl? some of you are billionaires and the black community is dying as we speak. young girls prostituting for cell phones, unemployment on an all time high, prison industry is booming, etc. as a matter of fact, I tried to get assistance from the urban league and they tried to get us to work for segrems gin to help them target black men from age 25 – 31 to buy more gin, lol. you black greeks are living in a fantasy world. I would like to hear how exactly you’re contributing to the growth and development of the black community.

  29. Marwan says:

    this video will answer your questions about the black greek frats:

  30. pserendipity says:

    @ Marwan —

    YOU said that BGLOs suppressed the “masses.” Perhaps it’s your own implication or belief that the purpose of BGLOs is to somehow uplift masses of Black people. As far as I know, uplift masses ain’t in anybody’s charter or mission statement. So, don’t attempt to call me out about something I never said and ask me to explain some figment of your own imagination. Now, if you wanna know how BGLOs uplift communities, I got you on that one.

    I don’t know who these “Black Elite/Uppity-Paid-off/Uppity Negroes are that you keep referring to. By that do you mean college educated members of Sororities or Fraternities? If being college educated makes you uppity, then I am uppity at it’s very finest. With three degrees, I am the epitome of uppity. My uppity parents worked their uppity asses off so that I could achieve and raise my soon-to-be uppity child. And I’m about to recycle that. This is because my downtrodden grandparents who never got the opportunity to be uppity and who are obviously part of the masses that feel a need to be saved by us would have it NO.OTHER.WAY.

    And your comment that BET was founded by a Black Frat Member/slave as an insult to the Black Fraternity was uncalled for. YOU were founded by somebody — but we ain’t holding it against them.

  31. Marwan says:

    its not about being college educated because Im in college. its about what you do with that education and power after you get it. will you work for the advancement of your own people, which the naacp claims to do, or will it be for the maintainence of white supremacy and power which countless uppity negroes have done; web being the most famous. the whites main priority is the advancement and nurturing of their own people, the jews, the mexicans, the asians, and nearly ever other race of ppl, but the blacks are among the only ppl who willingly work to stunt their own peoples growth and development in exchange for monetary gain and prestiege. the boule nurses of tuskeegee university from 1932 – 1972 helped white jew scientists conduct experiments on blacks, injecting them with syphilis. eunice rivers, a black sorority nurse, was the main sellout collaborator. now I ask again, what exactly are you black greeks doing to benefit Black ppl as a whole, not select frat members?

  32. Marwan says:

    you black greeks are the biggest tool of white supremacy on planet earth.

  33. brran1 says:

    Where are 1969, TIH and LH when you need them?

  34. LH says:

    A few things. Well, more than a few things. Feel me:

    1) Who is BET to talk about anything or anyone that’s mis-shaped black America?

    2) BET should be listed 25 times.

    3) They played themselves by including bling bling and ‘negative hip hop.’ Hello?!?!?

    4) How is it that Ward Connerly made the list by Flava Flav didn’t?

    5) Hurricane Katrina? Did an intern come up with that?

    6) Apartheid? That was South Africa and that’s been over for a decade. Huh?

    7) ‘Blacks that glorify stupidity’??? Uh … that should be blacks WHO glorify stupidity. Stupid.

    8) Speaking of stupid, it’s stupid to say the US Supreme Court has mis-shaped black America. First, which Supreme Court? Under Rehnquist? The current one under Roberts? Second, can we be a little more specific about which memebers of the Court have mis-shaped black America? There are always NINE of them, and not all of them are conservative you know. 😕

    I could go on and on ad infinitum dissecting this foolishness.

    @ Marwan: As to what black Greeks are doing to benfit blacks as a whole, that you’re even asking the question shows your bias and ignorance.

    Show me a black person who has moved the ball forward with regard to the black community and more times than not I will show you a member of a BGLO.

  35. Marwan says:

    the black frats and the average blacks are synonymous with the house and feild negroes, lol.

  36. miss_eddy says:

    I think he just wants to get into a battle.
    I stated my point already.
    Good luck with debating this.

  37. miss_eddy says:

    Marwan did you try to join an organization and get turned down and now you are bitter?

  38. Marwan says:

    from LH

    “Show me a black person who has moved the ball forward with regard to the black community and more times than not I will show you a member of a BGLO.”

    Elijah Muhammad
    Marcus Garvey

    what other blacks in the US history have don’t more for the upliftment of the black man than these two men? they weren’t black greeks. out of the hundreds of thousands, probably millions of black greeks, what have they done? MLK was their stooge until he tried to go against the Vietnam war and met with Elijah Muhammad in 1968 and agreed with some of his teaching. he had to go. but what are you black greeks doing with your education and money? and what is this ball you speak of and where is it rolling?,JJ,MalX.html&h=276&w=413&sz=80&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=jowTjBkJ6clswM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Delijah%2Bmuhammad%2Band%2Bmartin%2Bluther%2Bking%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

  39. pserendipity says:

    @ Brran

    Why you lookin for somebody else? I can’t hold it down?? Man….I gets NO respect. I’ma start posting me some ole thoughtful stuff, too. One day. LOL

    @ Marwan

    I’m going to kick myself for asking, but I must know. According to your school of thought, what should I do with my education and power after I get it? You know, so I can uplift masses, not be a sellout funnel for white supremacy, and be what a good Black Greek oughta be. You’ve identified the problem, what is your viable solution?

  40. Marwan says:

    web dubious also started the niagra movement to keep the “talented tenth” aka black elites away from ppl like garvey so their skills wont be utilized for the advancement and upliftment of their own ppl. it worked like a charm. they only became wannabe black greeks who know very little about ancient Africa history and how Black men from Egypt set up the kingdom of Athens.

  41. Marwan says:

    @ pserendipity

    do what is in the best interests of yourself and your ppl, not whites. do for self. create your own institutions and reality. be independent. don’t depend on white money and support because that’s how they control us. once they can threaten to cut the payments off, they got you, lol.

  42. LH says:

    Marwan, I think I see where this is headed so here’s what I will say: Instead of asking what black Greeks have done, do the reaseach and find out. You’re obviously familiar with the Internet, so if you really wanted to know, you would.

    I don’t know anything about you so I’m not going to speculate that you want(ed) to be Greek but got rejected. But I do have to say that I find it strange that Greeks are the only people in the ‘What Have You Done For Blacks’ audition.

  43. shauna says:

    Marwan, you need some serious counseling. What kind of shit did you drink or smoke to make you believe the shit that you believe. ‘Seperate but Equal’? Where are you from that things were ever equal and separate at the same time. Are you from planet earth? Cause the way your talking I can’t tell. The things you are saying are stupid, ignorant and just a little racist and its really pitiful. I suggest you get a reality check and stop living in the world that you created in your mind…

  44. Marwan says:

    to LH

    black greeks are comprised of the most successful blacks in america. they make up the most black lawyers, doctors, entreprenuers, etc. they have a responsibility to their own ppl that is much greater than those who have much less power, influence and money.

    if ppl can’t name one sufficient thing black greeks have done besides leading the charge for integration that most of you should be a least a bit suspicious.

  45. Marwan says:

    to shauna

    are we equal with white ppl today? are our communities in any better condition than before we integrated? blacks are still being lynching, by whites and by ourselves, our education is much lower, we have more self hatred than ever, more abortions, single mother homes, not getting married, more interracial relationships, more prisoners, more prostitutes, homeless, drug dealers, and churches on every block. you’re living in a fantasy. Im not interested in being equal to white ppl. Im interested in being better than white ppl and during segregation we were. now look at us.

  46. brran1 says:


    The way you are looking at things is as if (plz correct me if I’m wrong.) black people, mainly ‘uppity negroes’ are attempting to be equal with white people, and by equal you mean the same as in every aspect.

    People in the past such as Marcus Garvey, W.E.B. DuBois and MLK have paved the way for blacks such as Oprah, Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice to be able to have what they have today. Without what they did (regardless of whatever negative comment you may come up with) we would not be where we are today.

  47. pserendipity says:

    Why? Why as a Black Greek am I held to such a higher standard. Why do I automatically have such a huge responsibility because I’m greek? As LH said, you are the one who has put Black Greeks on trial in here.

    What about Black Preachers?
    What about Black Rappers?
    What about Black Mothers?
    What about Black Fathers?

    Everybody has the SAME responsibility regardless of your socioeconomic status and certainly regardless of whether you pledged.

    You just have this picture in your mind of how you think the world should be. I guess I’m uppity because I work for the Supreme Court. Of Mississippi. GASP!!! Every day that I step foot through these doors I’m upholding my responsibility to Black people and I am uber proud of the work that I do for “the man”. In doing so, I am opening up doors for the likes of you, should you choose to step through them. But under your analysis, I’m just an uppity paid off negro who isn’t doing anything for black folk.

  48. Marwan says:

    to brran1

    Garvey, dubious and many other blacks had different motivations and directions. it wouldn’t be right to give them all collective credit for where we are today. we’re more divided today than ever. you can give web dubious credit for where oprah is because she’s boule (black greek) but Garvey’s vision was sabotaged by web dubious. if it was up to Garvey, blacks would be in complete control of African natural resources today and have a working relationship and trade from overseas. Elijah Muhammads movement was also sabotaged. but conde rice, colin powell and oprah have dedicated their lived to the upliftment of white society and supremacy, not the black community. and where we are today isn’t really something to brag about.

  49. Marwan says:

    to pserendipity

    most black preachers are greeks/masons and are just as paid off as you. they’ve too an pledge to uphold white supremacy. what about helping blacks create their own structure so we can have our own doors rather than tryna brown nose your way into a white man’s door. ppl like bob johnson, the founder of bet, helped turn black rappers from positive to the way they are today. and many of them do more for the black community than the black greeks, especially ppl like Nelly, Dame Dash, Baby and many others. and they don’t have the education and “prestiege” as the black greeks, lol. when they give us hand-picked back greek negro leaders to lead us in a particular direction, then you automatically get scrutinized more than the average.

  50. Marwan says:

    what is the overall purpose of the black greeks in america?

  51. pserendipity says:

    Well, paid is one way to describe me. Paid off? Never that. I sure did brown nose my way into my job, too. I took my brown nose to school for seven years and did excellent work.

    Here’s what you don’t know. I was the FIRST Black person in the position that I hold now. Through work harder than the likes of which you have never seen in your college educated days, I got here. You don’t know what I do here, but best believe that part of it is fighting for the rights of a black man EVERYDAY.

    Do not EVER attempt to diminish my accomplishments by relegating them to brown nosing. You’re about to find out exactly how Black I am. I don’t stand on the street with a black gloved fist in the air, baby, because I’m sitting behind this desk or standing in a conference room doing the work that makes a difference in the lives of black folks JUST.THE.SAME. According to you, I shouldn’t be here. Now you’re thinking like a white man.

    Now, you can create whatever debts I owe to black folk in your own mind but I have handled mine. You’re a victim of that old slave to the struggle bullshit and you can have it.

  52. Marwan says:

    to pserendipity

    how are you working for black ppl? are you trying to stop the overpopulating of prisons with black men? and you’re the first and probably the last in your position. never be proud to be a token negro. if Im gonna be teh first to do be somewhere then its gonna be by my own making in my own institution now some racist white institution in which I can’t even pass the position down to my own children.

  53. Marwan says:

    and is that all the black greeks can brag about, being the first black have their job? thats why integration, web dubious, the naacp and many others should be included to that list.

  54. LH says:

    But blacks who do little more than try to tear down other blacks shouldn’t be on the list, right?

  55. Ras Judah says:

    In my opinion:
    Any programs, persons, or ideolgies that devalue, depersonalize, dehumanize, demean, and destroy Black life are to be condemned. This is why I would place abortion as second after slavery. Just check the numbers. 4,000 Black babies aborted every day in AmeriKKKa. I’m sure that Greek organizations probably do some good, but why aren’t they organizing against this genocide of abortion? I think Marwan has some good points to consider regarding Greek college history, even if I might not be quite as extreme as he is on this point. But capitalism should be third on the list. Too many college students have killed their babies thru abortion in order to pursue the capitalist dream. We need to wake up and realize that the value and success of a people should not be measured by the standards of their oppressors. I don’t care how many degrees a person has, or how big their bank account is. Our worth and value will be judged by our connection to the Creator (Spirituality, not religion), by our service to humanity, and by our moral righteousness. Study the teachings of Marcus Garvey, Haile Selassie, and Frederick Douglass. And listen to the message of Bob Marley. Stop allowing politricksters and entertainment propagandists to shape your thoughts. Free your mind, and your body and soul will folow!

  56. pserendipity says:

    First of all, my apologies to BRRAN1 for clowning on his blog. To LH, whom I respect, for acting in a manner which is unbecoming of a lady. And to anyone else who is offended by the cursing and general berating of a supposed Black Man. What I’m about to say my offend sensitive ears. I have only a few moments, so I’ll admit it’s not well thought out and later on I might apologize.

    Dear Marwan,

    First of all, in order to have your own shit, you’re going to need to know how to write and spell. That will be your first set back.

    Secondly, with your attitude and backwards ass logic, anything that you have will be just that. Some shit.

    Thirdly, I’ma stop counting and just use bullets.

    * Yes, I can brag about being the first Black to have my job. You can’t. You’ll never be the first Black anything because your frame of mind is such that your bullshit ass will never be taken seriously.

    * You will never know, because you are not deserving of a spot in any Greek letter organization — white or black.

    * There is NO.NEED. for you to ever ever ever worry about what I pass down to my child.

    I advise you, Grasshopper, to stay your stupid ass in college. It has become apparent that you should most definitely be there.

    NOW nothing I have said in these comments was a personal attack towards you. Why on earth would you ever fix your fucked up ass mouth to call me a token negro? If you respect Blackness like you claim to, you’d never speak to a Black woman that way. What a testament to your manhood, boy. But, I’ll give it to you. I am, indeed, a token. I’m a token of what hard work, perserverance, and outright determination can get you in life. The very next time you feel a need to pass judgment on me for doing ME, remember this, bitch, YOU.DON’T.KNOW.ME.

    BRRAN – I won’t be back today. You can ban me now.

  57. LH says:

    Is it me or have black Greeks suddenly been appointed custodians and caretakers of the black community? Now we’re supposed to speak out against abortion? Step away from the glue.

    If there’s anyone who believes that we don’t do anything to uplift the black community, it’s because s/he isn’t looking.

    I’m not about to sit here like I’m on a job interview and try to convince folks of anything. I’m on the inside looking out, which means that I *could* speak to what we’re doing but choose not to, largely because I recognise that any and everything I say is going to be shot down. Those of you who swear up and down that we don’t do anything have one or both eyes closed.

    What are you add water and mix nubians doing for the black community other than calling into question our contributions?

  58. brran1 says:

    I don’t ban here on TBL. Feel free to speak your mind however you choose. No apologies necessary P. 🙂

  59. LH says:

    No apologies needed here, either, although I appreciate it. See … that’s a sign of respect, something a Noble Greek would show when in the presence of another Noble Greek.

    These add water and mix nubians don’t seem to respect anything other than being contrarian automatons. You know … they throw a few names and phrases together that make them sound ‘conscious’ … like that’s ‘sposed to mean something. Whatevs.

  60. brran1 says:

    I agree with what Ras Judah said. At the end of the day, I believe that we as a people need to stop worry about what everyone else is doing. We need to concentrate on self. That means DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU, and stop caring so much about what everyone else is doing.

    Ras Judah said it best: We need to wake up and realize that the value and success of a people should not be measured by the standards of their oppressors. I don’t care how many degrees a person has, or how big their bank account is. Our worth and value will be judged by our connection to the Creator (Spirituality, not religion), by our service to humanity, and by our moral righteousness.

  61. miss_eddy says:

    Ok, I really wasn’t going to comment again because I didn’t want to get into a battle.

    But I had to laugh when i read this..
    “These add water and mix nubians don’t seem to respect anything other than being contrarian automatons. You know … they throw a few names and phrases together that make them sound ‘conscious’”


  62. Marwan says:

    to pserendipity

    the true mentality of the black greeks has finally come out. thanks for proving me right, lol.

  63. Marwan says:

    you know what, I can’t believe how silly and ignorant these black greeks really are. and this reminds me of spike lee’s school daze. Afrocentricists vs black greeks. but if it wasn’t for Ethiopia and somolia, there would be not nubia or egypt. if there were no Egypt, there would be no greece and Phonecia. if there were no phoenecia, there would be not greek alphabet and thus, you token negroes wouldn’t be called bglos, lol.

  64. brran1 says:

    Marwan: Idk if you can blame that on her being greek. She responded like any normal black woman would if and when you insult them.

  65. Marwan says:

    the black greek looks down on the average Blacks. they think they’re superior because of their so-called knowledge of plato, socrates and aristotle. but they’re nothing but wanna be whites with an inferiority complex and a severe lack of knowledge and love for self. I wouldn’t join a black greek homosexual fraternity for all the money on earth.

  66. brran1 says:

    How do greeks look down on average blacks? Listen to how you sound right now… What you just said was very stereotypical, and this is coming from a person who IS NOT greek. You need to do some research on greeks, because I guarantee you, the majority of greeks do not want to be white.

  67. Marwan says:

    what do you wanna be brran1? why only focus on the greeks? do you know where the so-called greek alphabet comes from? do you know who set up the greek civilization? did you know it wasn’t even called greece back then?

  68. brran1 says:

    You’re being nosy. All you need to know is that I am not a greek. The only person here focusing on the greeks is YOU. Secondly:

    The Greek Alphabet is a descendant of The Phoenician Alphabet which ,is a descendant of Egyptian Hieroglyphs

    Greece which is better known as the Hellenic Republic was founded in part from The Ottoman Empire,

    and Yes, I did know that it wasn’t called Greece back then. The actual name Greece is a relatively recent name.

    Anymore questions?

  69. Marwan says:

    true on most but its not a descendant of the Phoenician Alphabet but a direct copy. they claim to have purchased it. but thats wayyy off the original topic. I just hope the black race unite toward a common purpose and goal and begin to help eachother elevate to bigger and better positions on planet earth independent of white ppl.

  70. Marwan says:

    I see where LH gets his name from: late helladic.

  71. brran1 says:

    Actually No. LH is short for Lord Hannibal.

    To be completely honest, you’re better off treading lightly when it comes to insulting people. (If that was in fact an insult). If you think pSerendipity went off on you then…smh I don’t even wanna know what LH will say.

    And you’re incorrect about the greek alphabet:
    The Greek alphabet originated as a modification of the Phoenician alphabet and in turn gave rise to the Gothic, Glagolitic, Cyrillic, Coptic, and possibly the Armenian alphabets, as well as the Latin alphabet.

  72. brran1 says:

    If you want that to happen, then you need to stop degrading and belittling your people. You’re not helping the process by doing that.

  73. Marwan says:

    Im correct about the greek alphabet. it didn’t descend from the Phonecians but copied. historians claim the so-called greeks purchased it. the Phoenicians woulda never created the greek nor latin alphabets so it couldn’t have descended naturally.

    and pSerendipity just showed how emotional she is. Im not here for that.

  74. LH says:

    😉 @ miss_eddy. But you feel me, though? These cats read a couple of Final Calls and think they’re doing something.

    brran, it’s whatevs man. Marwan’s a bright boy but he’s is speaking of what he know’s not. He’ll figure it out at some point.

  75. Marwan says:


    what do you read to put you on your high horse?

  76. nineteen69 says:

    I am a black woman and an active member of a Black Greek Organization. For me personally in the past two months alone we (me and my organization) have organized a food drive in West Philadelphia, worked at a homeless shelter in Northeast Philadelphia and donated books and painted a school in Center City.

    Please believe that although Greek Organizations are consantly criticized, these organizations do make a difference in their communities through local and national service. Despite my chaper donating $25,000 in scholarhsip money in November….we never made he news. We only seem to get PRESS when we do something wrong.

    Marwan, I don’t know you but you have strong views. I respect your tenacity in defending your viewpoint and I am sure that you are personally doing all you can by both monetary and financial committment to helping those in our communities in need.

  77. LH says:

    @ 1969: Nice, especially the $25,000 in scholarship money.

    @ Marwan: I read things you wouldn’t understand nor have any way of having access to.

  78. Ras Judah says:

    Good blog. It is always more productive to avoid personal insults and profane put downs, and focus on defending positions thru logic and facts. I always enjoy learning new information and reading new insights. So Marwan, keep giving the history my bredda, and stay away from the personal insults. You have nuff important knowledge to give the people! As for LH: If you want to keep your head buried in the sand and ignore the detrimental effects of abortion on the African American community, then that’s your prerogitive. But at least you could refrain from having abortions or contributing to abortions. Far too many Greeks going up in the “clinics” man. Y’all should at least show a little shame by not displaying your Frat/Soror letters as you trod up in there to exterminate another Black life. Education, community brotherhood/sisterhood (i.e Greek college life),and a productive career are all positive things as long as they are pursued and attained in the proper context of a higher ideal. But when these things are deified and pursued as ends in themselves, rather than as the means to an end, then they become destructive impediments to spiritual consciousness. And physical, mental, and psychological health will never be attained apart from true spiritual consciousness. And this goes to the point I was making earlier: If you’re killing your babies in order to pursue your college education, then I have to conclude that your education is in reality mis-education. But where will you find institutions of true education in Babylon AmeriKKKa? Stop wasting your money and going into debt in order to subject yourself to Babylon’s brainwashing. We all need to respect ourselves, respect each other, respect LIFE, respect our spiritual roots, and respect the TRUTH. AmeriKKKa’s colleges and universities (including the so-called historically Black colleges and universities) are nothing more than brainwashing factories promoting either capitalist or communist propaganda, depending on the particular college. All they do is pump out cookie cutter versions of republiCONS and DEMONcrats. And this is how they keep the people divided against themselves. Malcolm was brilliant because he wasn’t brainwashed by AmeriKKKan mis-education. He was self-taught and self-read. He had his own ideas and opinions, and his knowledge was always evolving towards the TRUTH. This is what made him truly revolutionary. And this is why Babylon had to murder him. When you really stand for the TRUTH, you make enemies on all sides. But you also change the world. OK, that’s all for now. Look forward to what others think. Keep it positive always.

  79. Marwan says:

    the main purpose of the black greeks is to nourish and nurture white supremacy and domination. all most of these greeks can brag about is how they made a white owned and dominated corporation more money, how they managed their finances, how they gave them advice, how they read business plans, etc. the first planned parenthood clinics were endorsed by black greeks such as web dubious, the black preachers and the negro organizations such as the urban league. they knew full well what margerett sanger was all about. she hated black ppl and felt our population and to be drastically decreased. look up her “NEGRO PROJECT.” and as I stated before, the black educated greek nurses and doctors helped the white elites conduct experiments on their own people for forty years in tuskeegee. these negroes can care less about black life. the last thing any of them want is a lil’ “niglet” ruining their plans to serve massah and suppress their own ppl. its a known fact that black women have the most abortions in amerikkka but I wonder how many of those abortions were from white fathers?

    learn about the “NEGRO PROJECT”:

  80. Ras Judah says:

    Lotta truth in what you say Marwan! It may be hard to swallow, but facts are facts. So keep bringing these truths to light. My Queen was a member of Delta Sigma Theta sorority in college. She now looks upon the experience as a total waste of time. She has often said that wearing the same colors and greek letters does not automatically make people sisters or brothers. To me it’s really just an excuse to party and feel a superficial sense of unity. All manner of wicked behavior is justified by a few small acts of community service. You don’t have to be greek to do good in the community, and being part of a greek frat/soror doesn’t necessarily mean you are going to be involved in bad behavior. But as my Queen says,to her the whole thing was just superficial and meaningless. And there can be no argument that Black greek organizations were all modeled after white greek organizations. Just as Black colleges were modeled after white colleges. Just as Black politricksters model themselves after white politricksters. (By the way, don’t be fooled by Obama!) A truly liberated people do not model themselves after their opressors. Birth CONTROL, abortion, sodomy and lesbianISM, drug and alcohol abuse, AIDS, and many other evils were all handed down to the oppressed (often forced upon them) by the oppressor. A liberated people will be free from these things. So, I ask myself, where do I see Black people liberated from these things? I see RASTAFARI liberated. But I don’t see a whole lot of greeks liberated. By the way, why dem “hazing” each other? Haven’t Black people suffered enough without torturing one another more thru these demonic rituals copied from demonic white organizations? All these things stem from a desperate sense of insecurity. People are driven to all manner of perversity and evil just so they can feel a sense of belonging. As an individual emrges from their adolescent years into young adulthood, they are supposed to have outgrown peer pressure. And greek organizations are just another form of peer pressure to which immature and insecure individuals succumb. But, I still want to give the benefit of the doubt, and encourage those of you who are greek to work hard to steer your organizations in a positive moral direction.

  81. pserendipity says:

    @ Ras,

    Your Queen is still a member of Delta Sigma Theta, unless they somehow took her letters. So, with that my question is why you didn’t encourage her to do the same thing — to work hard to steer Delta in a positive moral direction?

    These college level Greeks that you’re talking about are college level. If you’re Greek, should you not party? Everyone in college, whether Greek or not wants to feel a sense of unity to someone or something — what is the problem with that?

    I mean, I can get with some of the things you’re saying. Some things have gotten out of line, true enough. But, the idea that Black Greek Organizations are the anti-Blackness sent to suppress the masses is laughable. I don’t see a whole lot of Greeks liberated, but I also don’t see a whole lot of PEOPLE liberated. Why should Greeks be at the front of the liberation line? Why should Greeks be at every pro-life rally? Why isn’t the idea that PEOPLE should step up to the plate? Everytime someone on here asks the question, the answer is just “because”…..

    Speaking on a personal level, I didn’t have a superficial and meaningless experience and the people who I know that are still here working — they aren’t having one either. Sorry my Soror did, but at the end of the day, she’s still my Soror. Tell her I said oo-oop!

  82. Marwan says:

    for those of you who refuse to look into the reality of the negro greeks and the infamous “NEGRO PROJECT”:

    The aim of the program was to restrict–many believe exterminate–the black population. Under the pretense of “better health” and “family planning,” Sanger cleverly implemented her plan. What’s more shocking is Sanger’s beguilement of black America’s créme de la créme–those prominent, well educated and well-to-do–into executing her scheme. Some within the black elite saw birth control as a means to attain economic empowerment, elevate the race and garner the respect of whites.

    The Negro Project has had lasting repercussions in the black community: “We have become victims of genocide by our own hands,” cried Hunter at the “Say So” march.

  83. Ras Judah says:

    Good response. I like to converse with ones that come forward woth reasonable points. Thanks. I totally agree that it is people in general that need to be liberated, not just greeks. I do agree with many of Marwans points about the problems with greek organizations, but I don’t want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I met my Queen (wife) shortly before she graduated, and back then I myself was shallow in my consciousness (we are all growing, hopefully). True, also, that the greek experience is fulfilling for some and for others not. I guess the sense of condemnation comes from the frustration I feel whenver I see individuals, instituions, or organizations holding themselves up to be bastions of Black advancement when they simultaneously promote and practice some of the most detrimental ideas and atrocities that affect the African American population. I know greek organizations supposedly have certain standards for admittance, such as maintaining a certain GPA and not doing things that would bring disgrace upon that organization. But shouldn’t participating in killing another Black human life be at the top of the list of things not to do as a member of a Black frat or sorority? My Queen has seen too many of her “sorors” going into abortion clinics while displaying their Delta letters. She has often tried to address them about this and guide them to life-affirming solutions to their dilemma (how sad it is that our culture has CONditioned us to view pregnancy as a “dillemma!”). But these so-called “sisters” of hers often ignore her and seem not to even care. So, I don’t expect every greek organization to protest abortion. Like I said, it would just be nice if they began by demanding that their members not be involved in the practice of abortion in any way. Here is a good idea: Why don’t the greek organizations formulate collective and cooperative ways to offer life-affirming assistance to any member who has an unwanted pregnancy. If a young woman can’t go in confidence to her “sisters” and receive positive, life-affirming help with her pregnancy, then how much solidarity really exists in that sorority? So, maybe you could pass this idea along, or implement it yourself. But now at least we are discussing solutions that we can all agree upon. This seems productive. As for “partying,” I regrettably did more than my fair share in college. But it only led to negative consequences. This is another one of Babylon AmeriKKKa’s great lies- that somehow partying and promiscuity is a rite of passage. The result of this lie is that immoral industries like the liquor, gaming, and abortion idustries, profit at the expense of Black people who are addicted, barren, and broken-hearted. So “partying” is just one more lie adopted from white AmeriKKKa. And corporations like BET exploit the very people they claim to represent by perpetuating and fueling this lie at every level. OK. Thanks again for a thoughtful response. By the way, look up Fanny Lou Hamer’s comments on abortion some time. I believe she was affiliated with Delta Sigma Theta. Bless.
    Peace and Love,

  84. Marwan says:

    all they wanna do is party and dance. that’s y there’s so many diseases floating around these colleges.

  85. Ras Judah says:

    Yeh. True Marwan. Dem just copying what they see on BET! BET gotta be in the top 10 as far as things that have mis-shaped Black America. And again, BET is modeled after a white corporation- MTV. What is important to understand is that AmeriKKKa’s poisons effect the Black community far more than the white comunity. For example, if I put a teaspoon of poison in both a 16 ounce bottle of water and a gallon of water, which container of water will be more strongly poisoned? Obviously the 16 ounce bottle of water. So drugs, abortion, diseases, immoral influences that come from entertainment and the media, and the like, have a much greater impact on the African American community, which makes up only 13% of the U.S. population. This is why Marcus Garvey advocated repatriation. He was trying to get the people to make an exodus out of the bondage to which these poisons inevitably lead. So, while we may not be able to make a physical exodus out of AmeriKKKa, we can certainly make a mental and spiritual exodus away from AmeriKKKa. As Revelation 18 states: “Come out of her (Babylon) my people, so as not to partake of her sins and receive of her judgments and plagues.” First step in the exodus: Turn off the BET!!!!
    More Fiyah!
    By the way Marwan, I know Rev. Johnny Hunter of L.E.A.R.N. Him not Rasta, but him a true Christian, speaking out on behalf of the downpressed and the voiceless. Raspect to that man!

  86. pserendipity says:

    Hmmm… well.

    Now, I, like you agree that participating in killing any form of life should be at the top of the agenda as a No-No. However, Delta is not the Catholic church. When you join to Delta, you join a diverse organization. With more than 200,000 members, it would be impossible to enforce one particular belief, such as demanding that members not be involved in making a private choice, even if its one that half of society doesn’t agree with. I think a significant part of the whole abortion debate has been about society not policing people’s private affairs. Requiring the sorority to adopt that certain policy would most certainly cause severe conflict amongst our members who, on personal levels and outside of Delta, are on opposite sides of the debate. Yes, Fannie Lou Hamer was an honorary Delta who had opinions on the abortion issue. There are 200,000 Deltas who have opinions on the abortion issue, some the same as hers, some opposite. Being a Delta doesn’t mean I have to believe that — it means I have to still respect the sister who does.

    You mention that your wife “has often tried to address them about this and guide them to life-affirming solutions…” but she was ignored. It seems to me that she was bothered by the personal decisions of some of her sisters who happened to disagree with her “life affirming” viewpoint. That’s not a Sorority issue. That’s wanting people to do what you think they should do, then quitting when they don’t. If that’s the reason she gave up on Delta, she sure did miss out on the bigger picture of where her talents could surely have made a difference in the life of someone….perhaps a Delta Gem that she could have taken under her wing, or a woman in a crisis center that could have benefited from her words. Both of those individuals could have been touched by a Delta who just gave up.

    Instead of looking at one aspect of what SOME Deltas do, why don’t you check out the Five Point Thrust? Delta is not a political machine that is set up to police thoughts and actions of it’s members. It is made up of women who claimed to believe in the ideals presented in and the programs that are carried out in the name of our Five Point Thrust. THAT is what we come together on, THAT is what we enforce. THAT is what moves our sorority forward.

    As for your other comments, I have attended the HBCU where I pledged and partied, and a White college where I studied and they partied. Believe me “immoral industries like the liquor, gaming, and abortion industries”, profit at the a hell of a lot more people’s expenses than ours, honey.

    BET — we agree.

  87. brran1 says:

    Marwan: you can’t blame the fact that people have diseases solely on the fact that they party. You have people who don’t party but still lay with every Tom, Dick & Rakeem there is on campus.

  88. Ras Judah says:

    I’m a little disappointed in your argumentation, but I appreciate the conciliatory tone.
    First, we must reject the subjectivism/relativism lie, which is another product of Babylon’s brainwashing and mis-education. There are moral laws in the universe that are inviolate, just like the law of gravity. It doesn’t matter what opinion I have about gravity, the fact is that if I jump off of 20 story building I will die. Dr. King said that, “The arc of the moral universe is long, and it bends towards justice.” Just because someone believes abortion is their own personal decision doesn’t make it right. Let us not forget that this is the same argument that slave owners made. They weren’t trying to impose their “right” to own slaves on those in the North. They just wanted those opposed to slavery to stop interfering with their personal moral decision to own slaves. But fiyah burn dem and their twisted logic!! Another thing also: of course the issue of abortion is controversial. But every great moral, ethical, and human rights issue has been controversial. Should we keep silent and refuse to take a stand just because we are afraid to offend those who are in the wrong? What good are our beliefs and our values if we don’t stand up for them, even if it is uncomfortable to do so. To quote Dr. King again, “The true test of an individual is not where they stand in times of comfort and convenience, but where they stand in times of controversy and challenge.” How many Jews would have been saved if German citizens would have taken a stand instead of ignoring the holocaust that hapened right in their back yards? How many slaves would have been saved if more people had joined the abolitionist movement sooner? I know for a fact that many Black greek organizations were very active in speaking out against apartheid in South Africa, and pressuring the government to divest from South Africa. Would these greek organizations have tolerated members who thought apartheid should not be opposed? I don’t think so! So why should they tolerate the deliberate killing of innocent Black unborn life right here in AmeriKKKa? There are many sick people in this society who believe that pedophelia should not be a crime. Should Delta Sigma Theta tolerate pedophiles in their sorority? Do you see how absurd moral relativism is? That is why people need to sight Rastafari. Rastafari does not hesitate to call wiKKKedness what it is. InI know that Almighty JAH is a loving God, but He is also a consuming fire. If you love your sistrens, you best warn dem of their wiKKKed involvement. We are all our brothers’ (and sisters’) keeper. It is not a matter of wanting others to do what I think they should do. Personally, if Babylonians want to sodomize each other and kill their offspring, I am inclined to leave them alone in their wiKKKedness and let them suffer the just consequences of their actions. But that would not be loving or compassionate. Besides, we have clear commandments from our Creator to intervene on behalf of those being oppressed, enslaved, or murdered in the womb. We have a divine mandate to help guide our sisters and brothers who are straying into error. I know that throughout my life I have been spared much suffering because a righteous brother or sister intervened when I was about to go headlong into sin and error. I didn’t always appreciate it at the time, but I give thanks now for sure! So, my dear sistren, don’t be afraid to speak out for what’s right. It won’t always be easy, but you will be rewarded and lives will be spared and changed. I encourage you in this way, because I can sense that you have a good moral framework at your core; it has just been dulled a bit by Babylonian mis-education and influence. Know JAH and know Thyself, and you will become a powerful person. Strive to conform your thoughts and opinions to JAH’s Truth, not to man’s ideas. Too many educated fools in the world! I am confident, though, that you are not one of them. And remember this proverb of Ras Judah: “A truly open mind can only come from a heart that is truly open to JAH.” As regards to the last comment about the immoral industries and their negative influence on Black America: you didn’t address the argument I made that these industries disproportionately effect the Black community. I gave a clear analogy of the poison and the water. White people smoke crack, drink liquor, buy lotto tickets, and have abortions. But these practices decimate the Black community, just as they have been designed to do. This is what makes these things so insidious, and this is why we should fight them so strongly.
    Enjoying the reasonments. Positivity, Peace, Life & Love. JAH! RASTAFARI!

  89. pserendipity says:

    “So, my dear sistren, don’t be afraid to speak out for what’s right. It won’t always be easy, but you will be rewarded and lives will be spared and changed. I encourage you in this way, because I can sense that you have a good moral framework at your core; it has just been dulled a bit by Babylonian mis-education and influence.”

    I’m not. Daily I speak out for what’s right. As a matter of fact, I’m about to give a presentation on it at 10:00. Hopefully, a couple lives will be spared by what I’m about to say. Thanks for recognizing, I certainly do have a good moral framework. I don’t think I’m mis-educated about anything, and the influence I live by comes from God. YOU think I’m not fighting the good fight because I’m not jumping on your bandwagon, but every battle is not mine and I choose not to live in a world where everything is either black or white, and if it ain’t Black it’s wrong.

    I could probably write a comment about grits on here, and somehow you would figure out how grits are something we need to fight against and how they are an abomination to Black folk in this white man’s AmeriKKKa. But I’ma still eat ’em. With a smile. 🙂

  90. brran1 says:

    As humans, we all make mistakes and we all have the right to exercise free will. When you make statements and/or accusations generalizing one set group of persons because certain people of that group believe one thing, you are making the problem worse. I guarantee that if you were to substitute greeks for all black people (including myself, Marwan, Ras Judah, & pSerendipity) people would be quick to say “Oh na, I don’t do that…” or “Na, I don’t get down like that…”

  91. Marwan says:

    I’d still like to know, what has and what are blgos doing for the upliftment and betterment of the black community? I know what they’re doing for white amerikka.

  92. pserendipity says:

    @ Marwan,

    Let me just go ahead and make it easy for you so you can stop jumping up and down trying to be relevant and validated and maybe you can leave well enough alone.

    According to YOU and as far as YOU’RE concerned, the answer to your question is nothing.

    Now, feel free to go on and on about how you were right.

  93. ibeesdablock says:

    To Pserendipity, LH and 1969- chuch! (that means i agree with your points of view because i know you all my not be black enough to understand such slang-being members of the black elite and all) I guess I am a field negro or an average black because I am not a member of a black sorority. I can’t tell you the last time I did something to advance anyone’s plight except my own. I beleive in a woman’s right to choose, I perm my hair and try to get it as stick straight as possible, I and my children speak standard English and my kids go to one of the whitest school distircts in Mississippi. Am I ashamed of myself- hells no. But, I do feel guilty because I don’t do enough to help others- particularly in the neighboring black community where help is desperately needed. I am not a memeber of the elite by any means, but I am much better off than many others. I can easily become a mentor, volunteer at local shelters, help pick up paper or whatever. But shamefully, I don’t. My girl P, on the other hand is always involved in the uplifting of others. She is a mentor, a volunteer and an educator and is always looking for something else to get involved with. The difference between us may very well come from the fact that giving was something she became accustomed to as a memeber of her sorority. If this is the affect sororities have on women then they should keep on doing what their doing. And I should get my but off this computer and get to work on doing something for somebody other than myself. PEACE!

  94. Marwan says:

    now that we’ve established that the black elites are most likely of the bglos and they do absolutely nothing for the advancement of the black community yet do plenty towards its destruction; integration and abortion is only a couple. but what should we do about these negroes? should we allow them to continue misleading 85% into the white man’s hell or should we hold them accountable and punish them for their betrayal?

  95. 1969 says:

    I just laugh at this notion of the Black Elite in 2008.

    When these organizations were founded in the early 1900’s, yes, most of the members were majority “black elite”. But let’s be real..Just to get to college as a black person in that era….the entire campus was considered elite as far as the opportunity they were afforded over other members of their race.

    To still refer to BGLO members as Black Elite is not accurate in 2008.

    I came from the Caribbean. I grew up in Brooklyn in a housing development. I was the first person in my family to attend and graduate college.

    I am not even remotely Elite….like you…I am a hard worker. I don’t belong to this imaginary BGLO elite that you refer to. I went to college and chose to join an organization. You may have chosen to be in the Black Student Union or the Basketball team. This was my personal choice. It’s not for everyone.

    I joined an organization of Black Women committed to doing service. For all of the rheoric that is being spouted….pound for pound, I can bet you that on a consistent basis….I am out helping our community more than a person that is not active in any BGLO. Contrary to what reports you are reading or who you may see at the abortion clinic (What does that have to do with the achievements of the entire organization of Delta Sigma Theta?)….the bottom line is….we do work. Do some research on any of these organizations and their current platforms.

    My main question is this….When is the last time you personally volunteered or performed any type of service in your own community? Do you do his on a consistent basis? You can criticize and denigrate all you want….unless you are doing more than me….I’m not that impressed with any of your arguments. Even if you want to talk about how we were founded, what being Greek means, etc…I am still putting in the work in my community consistently through my Sorority.

    Like I said….I hope you intelligent brothers are out walking the talk and making a difference in these young lives instead of just laying in the cut critizing your brothers and sisters trying to make a difference.

  96. 1969 says:

    AND YES…BET should negate any list where they AREN’T number one.

  97. 1969 says:

    Here are just a few of my organizations’ National programs for the last 100 years since you wanted proof that we do things for the Black Community.
    From our Mississippi Health Project to the Cleveland Job Corps, mentoring young black women in our Ivy AKAdemies and the African Village Project where we built housing in Africa….best believe…we have been doing more than attending only tea parties and social gatherings with the rest of the elite. LOL

    I am certain my fellow BGLO members can provide the same for their organizations.

  98. pserendipity says:

    Can I PLEASE get a comment on what my AKA sister just spoke on up in here? Specifically, to BOTH of you up who are proclaiming that BGLOs are the downfall of the community:


    I’ma give you a while, but I’m sure what we’ll end up with is


  99. 1969 says:

    I got you Sister pserendipity. Oh, I guess that will also dispel the AKA’s and Delta’s can’t co-exist stuff that will be posted next. LOL

  100. pserendipity says:

    Dang….I just keep refreshing my browser waiting to hear about this organizing being done and all the rights being fought for over by Marwan and Ras’s…Maybe they’re at work…..or at a Black Panther Meeting….or at a rally……oh, maybe today was scope out the clinic for Greek letters day.

    Any other time, they woulda been all up in our chickens by now…….prolly on a Blackberry burnin’ them thumbs up callin us uppity trying to figure out what to do with uppity Greeks who have invaded AmeriKKKa… One mo gin..


    Come on guys, ya’ll can think of something….

  101. LH says:

    @ibeesdablock: What’s ‘black enough?’ If you associate slang with blackness … well, that sucks.

    @ 1969 & pSeredipity: When you argue with a fool, people from a distance can’t tell who’s who. Let dude rest in peace.

  102. nineteen69 says:

    I do think Ras made several great points. But to argue that the BGLO are in the 25 top things that have mis-shaped black America? C’mon.

    The AKA’s and Hurricane Katrina? The Kappa’s and Slavery? The Delta’s and the Crack Epidemic?

    The majoriy of our people suffering will never make it to college. They will never even be able to make the choice to join or not join a BGLO.

    Let’s face facts….poverty, our failing school systems, breakdown of the black family unit, drugs, crime, and the crisis affecting black men….these are far more hurtful to our people than any Black Greek Letter Organization.

    And hell….at least the BGLO’s are still out there trying to make a difference.
    Like I said….what are each of us doing?

  103. nineteen69 says:

    True Lh…True.

    And I’m out. Have a blessed weekend. Thanks for the great discussion.

  104. LH says:

    @ ibeesdablock: What’s ‘black enough?’ Being able to understand slang? Played out slang at that? Stop playin’.

    @ pserendipity and 1969: You should count the work you’re putting in here against your respective chapter’s community service hours–even though it’s a lost cause.

  105. Ras Judah says:

    OK, let’s try to make rational arguments to substantiate our views. I haven’t really attacked greek organizations as much as I have simply challenged them to stop tolerating wiKKKedness in their ranks. If you are a proud member of any organization that is supposedly founded on positivity and upliftment, then why not draw a moral line in the sand and hold your fellow members accountable? By the way, simply proclaiming “I believe in a woman’s right to choose” is not making a logical argument. Defend your position with reason and facts. Like I said, slave owners were also “pro-choice.” Address my points about apartheid and pedophilia. Do you allow members of your organizations to promote these evils as well? As for my Queen, she is a 4th grade school teacher who goes above and beyond to educate and uplift the youth under her tutelage. She has also helped many young women and girls by talking them out of abortions and giving them life-affirming assistance. And just because an organization does a lot of good, this does not make that organization good in its essence. There were slave owners who taught Sunday School, did community service, and provided for their families. But how do you think they will fair on Judgment Day? Fiyah Burn Dem!! So, regardless of all the good deeds an individual or instition may do, if they support, condone, contribute to, or tolerate the deliberate oppression or destruction of innocent human life, then they are wiKKKed nonetheless. Plain and simple.
    I still haven’t read any logical refutations to my last points. I would love to continue the discussion, but if y’all can’t do better than this, then I must move forward.
    To end on a positive note (always): We are all hopefully striving to better ourselves and grow in our enlightenment. I myself would never say that I’m doing enough. Who can say that? I also would never say that I have never been mis-educated. To make a statement like that proves the mis-education of the person who made it. We have been mis-educated by the fact that we live in AmeriKKKa, and by the fact that we are inundated day and night with media propaganda. So the first step towards enlightenment is to acknowledge our ignorance. Just as the first step toward emancipation is to acknowledge that one is in bondage. Don’t forget that there were a lot of “house negroes” that thought they were “free.” So I will begin with myself, and focus on the beam in my own eye. But that doesn’t mean that I won’t address injustice, or that I won’t speak fiyah to slave owners, pedophiles, and baby-killers. We cannot avoid making moral judgments. It is our duty and responsibility to call wrong “wrong.” If your own child were murdered, would you not be angry? But every child, born and unborn, is as valuable in the eyes of God as our own children are. As I read the Bible, I see that Yahshua (Christ) went to the sinners and gave them mercy and love. But He also told them to “Go and sin no more.” But Yahshua had no mercy for the Pharisees and the child abusers. He said, “WOE UNTO THEM!” So I-man say: Let us keep the children first and foremost in our efforts and outreaches. I stand for Peace, Tolerance, and Human Rights. And nothing is more violent, intolerant, and inhumane than abortion. The youth are our future. If we keep killing them before they are even born, then what future can we hope for? The Hispanic community has already passed the Black community as the largest “minority” in the U.S. This comes as no surprise when you consider that the homosexual agenda and the abortion agenda have been MASTERful at selling their propaganda to the Black community. Mis-education at its best (or worst)!!! Homosexuality and abortion have done more to thwart the Black race than drugs, AIDS, and gang-violence combined. Just check the numbers.
    But again, let’s all start with ourselves. Thanks for the discusssion. I hope to read some logical and rational responses this time. Let’s also focus more on the areas we all agree upon, like taking down BET!!!
    I will end with the mystical words of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia:
    “Throughout history it is the inaction of those who could have acted, the indifference of those who should have known better, the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most, that has made it possible for evil to triumph.”
    Blessings to All,

  106. Ras Judah says:

    Forgot to say that I like grits too. Nothing wrong with that. Just stay away from the PORK!! Dem trichonosis worms are nasty things!!

  107. Marwan says:

    what have I done for the community lately?

    1. I co-founded a nonprofit organization with a sole purpose uplifting the Black community.

    2. because we’re not a 501(c)3 we don ‘t get grants so we created a Magazine to both raise money for our orgainization and raise awareness to the masses of blacks with empowering information.

    3. Im out there everyday amongst the poor and hopeless blacks trying to make a difference in their lives and motivating and encourages and providing a real example for them to do sumthing for self.

    4. Im a full time College student and pay my own rent and bills. I don’t have a job, Im completely independent.

    5. I don’t get any support from Black organizations or rich negroes in my endeavors.

    6. I don’t see any evidence of black greeks doing anything in the black community except run churches, lock people up in prisons, or do some other job for their massahs against their own ppl.

    7. it was you uppity self-righteous negroes who made this an I do more than you game.

    8. and giving a person food will not help them provide for themselves for the rest of their lives but will only make them dependent on you and the likes of you.

  108. Marwan says:

    from 1969:

    “Let’s face facts….poverty, our failing school systems, breakdown of the black family unit, drugs, crime, and the crisis affecting black men….these are far more hurtful to our people than any Black Greek Letter Organization.”

    one of my main premises has been that the black greeks helped sabotage movements such as Garvey, Elijah Muhammad and the Black Power Movements, which would have made these things non-existant. you can’t erase the clear dirty history of the bglos.

  109. LH says:

    Ras Judah,

    Arbitrarily selecting “evils” like paedophilia and apartheid and then asking if BGLOs “allow” our members to “promote” them is silly.

    Black Greek Letter Organisations were never intended to operate as a morality police for their members. That isn’t to say that the founders BGLOs didn’t believe in and observe basic tenets of morality, but when my fraternity, Kappa Alpha Psi, was founded at Indiana University in 1911, it was not as a child welfare agency or a political movement.

    I’ve yet to read or hear a member of a BGLO hold any of our organisations out as a cure-all for what ails the black community, which is what you and Marwan seem to believe we should be. Who are either of you to dictate what we should do?

    Your definition of wickedness is one that indicts all humans. This includes Rastifarians … like you. Discuss wickedness among Rastifarians. After you do, tell me what Rastifarians are doing today to uplift the black race. Or are you going to tell me that ol’ boy in The Game’s video is holding it down?

    Son, you can miss me with all of these sayings and scriptures that YOU deem important, but have nothing to do with BGLOs. You don’t get to dictate what we should do–period.

  110. Ras Judah says:

    LH: What are these basic tenets of morality that your frat’s founders believed in? Should they still be upheld? Do they include not participating in Black genocide? From your weak response to my previous arguments, it seems that you are essentially admitting that fraternities and sororities exist primarily to party and cultivate a false sense of identity and “brotherhood.” Now, see, initially I was prepared not to condemn greek orgs as strongly as Marwan. But after reading the facts layed out by Marwan, and not sighting any reasoned refutations by you greeks, I am now inclined to agree with Marwan even more.
    As for Rastafari: Fight His Majesty if you dare, but you will only get burned my bredda!!! Rastafari is no joke! Don’t confuse dreadlocks and pot-smokers with Rastafari. This is not a fashion statement, and InI Rastas are not hippies. So trod carefully before you start attackING Rasta! Read His Majesty’s words. Haile Selassie is the light of Africa, and the light of the African diaspora. Your Babylon history books don’t teach you nothing about H.I.M.! All you know is W.E.B. Dubois and Thurgood Marshall, two of the biggest impediments to Black people’s liberation that ever existed. Stay away from that liquor and pork, my bredda. And stop abusing your Black bredren with your demonic “hazing” rituals! The words of Haile Selassie I, Marcus Garvey, and the Holy bible are the greatest education you will ever get. Stop wasting your money on AmeriKKKan mis-education. By the way, why you kappas got that Babylon leash around your neck all the time? Why you can’t wait to loosen it as soon as you get home? That tie is a symbol of the oppression and bondage that you are still a victim of! I-man won’t ever be “tied” to Babylon, cause I-man am “locked” with Almighty JAH! Free yourself man!!! Dem words burn don’t they? And stop taking your Black sisters up into the clinics to kill Black babies!!! If I catch you, there’s gonna be trouble for sure. Believe that!ONE LOVE still.

  111. LH says:

    Ras Judah,

    Drug Help National Helpline


  112. Ras Judah says:

    My mind is free from drugs, liquor, and trichinosis. That’s why I’m able to burn you with powerful arguments to which you obviously have no response. You continue to prove what I keep saying about mis-education. Start by taking off that tie and letting some blood flow to your brain!
    To the rest of you greeks: Why the lack of responses over the weekend to my previous posts? Oh yeh, I forgot, y’all been too busy partying!

  113. LH says:

    You’re burning but it’s not with powerful arguments. You and your fellow add water and mix numbians are frauds and here’s why: You never miss an opportunity to diss BGLOs by way of the same tired, stale arguments that people have been reciting for years, that BGLOs are in league with the oppressor. That’s not original and it isn’t even true.

    That’s a powerful (sounding) statement, but when asked to substantiate your assertion, now you’re sitting here giving dietary, fashion and religious advice? That’s rational to you?

    None of you who say that BGLOs are in league with the oppressor can ever substantiate your claim with facts or even a logical, rational, cogent, substantive argument. You list some names and dates but little more. That’s reckless and irresponsible.

    Here’s another reason you people are frauds: You aren’t doing anything to help anyone other than yourselves. If BGLOs are so lousy, why don’t you and your kind show us the way?

    Call that number I gave you and get some help, son.

  114. Ras Judah says:

    LH: I have an Almighty Father, and it sure isn’t you. So stop calling this LION “son.” You’re treading dangerously. Show some respect. But I guess the only people you respect is your so-called “brothers,” the ones that you allowed to beat you with canes in order to gain their acceptance. Sad.
    It wasn’t I who said that greeks are in league with the oppressor. But the fact is that many of your “brothers” and “sisters” are involved in oppressive and genocidal practices such as birth control, abortion, sodomy, and drug and alcohol abuse. All I asked you, and am asking once again, is why don’t you hold your brothers and sisters accountable? Family members are supposed to care for one another and keep each other on the righteous path. If your frat/sor claims to be an organization of solidarity and brotherhood/sisterhood, then why do y’all let your fellow members engage in all manner of wiKKKedness? If you claim to be an org of Black advancement and upliftment, then why do you allow your members to engage in practices that destroy and hinder Black upliftment and advancement? But I already know the answer, because you have stated it quite clearly already: “Am I my brother’s keeper?” ButI guess it’s only fitting that you think like Cain in the Bible, cause y’all love to “Cain” your own “brothers.”
    As for Rastafari, there’s too much righteousness to even begin to discuss here. But I will teach you this:
    Begin with Self.
    -Love JAH (God)
    -Love your fellow man (which means holding them accountable at times)
    -Strive to better yourself SPIRITUALLY. Many have knowledge, but few have WISDOM. If you strive for true Spiritual growth (not Babylon’s perversion of Christ and the Holy Bible), then you will inevitably find TRUE BROTHERHOOD, and you will truly begin to make a positive difference in the WORLD. Material things are gonna burn in JAH time, and then what will be left? Condition your soul my bredda. And these words apply to all of us, myself first and foremost.
    Now, let’s forward from here on to positive things that we can agree upon. I’m sure that if we all try, we can unite in certain areas to do some good together. And although you disrespected me by calling me “son,” I-man shall still refer to you as “brother.” For the truth is that we are all children of JAH, even though some just don’t realize it. So Blessings still my Brother.

  115. brran1 says:

    Ras Judah:
    It is true. Some greeks do in fact do these things. But it just as true that people that are non greeks (be they black, white, Native American, etc.) do the same things as well.

    Family Members are supposed to look out for their own, but you cannot be held responsible for the actions of others. We are all adults, and we all need to take responsibility for our own personal actions. What you do in your personal life is your business. Just because I may not agree with your choices does not give me the right to lecture you on what I personally think is right.

  116. brran1 says:

    Loosely translated: “What you eat, don’t make me shit…”

  117. Ras Judah says:

    brran: According to your logic, no one has a right to condemn anything. Didn’t Dr. King lecture AmeriKKKa on what he thought was right? Didn’t Mandela lecture South Africa on the injustice of apartheid? Are we all just supposed to ignore the evil and injustice in the world and only focus on ourselves? That is a very weak, cowardly, and selfish philosophy. I hope you won’t mind if you are being beaten to death and people pass you by without intervening to help. Why should they help you, according to your philosophy? Those who are killing you are, after all, only making a personal choice that no one else has a right to interfere with. Too bad that Dr. King, Malcolm X, Frederick Douglass, and many others had to interfere with the personal moral choices of so many people. I’m sure AmeriKKKa would have been much better off if these heroes had just minded their own business! Like I said to LH, this is the mentality of Cain (see Genesis 4:1-16). The fact is: we are our brother’s keeper. And this is reiterated in the New Testament as well. Yahshuah taught the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:29-37). This parable shows that God demands that we intervene on behalf of those in need. If we ignore injustice then we contribute to injustice. Take some time to compare these two passages of scripture.
    I agreed earlier that it is people in general and not just greeks that do sinful and evil things. But when individuals, institutions, or ororganizations hold themselves up to be agencies of Black enlightenment, advancement, and upliftment, then they will be judged by that standard. For example, prostitutes and drug dealers don’t proclaim to be uplifting the Black community. No one expects righteousness from them. Now, I guess what I would like to know is this: Do BGO’s profess to be positive and uplifting organizations of Black advancement? Do they proclaim to be organizations of service to the community? If they do, then by their own proclamations they are making certain moral judments to which they expect their members to adhere. Raising money for a charity, serving food to the homeless, and conducting Black History programs all have moral implications. And I imagine that most BGO’s are doing some of these very positive things. Would BGO members not make any moral judgments about a brother or sister who said, “Screw the homeless. I’m not gonna serve them food. Screw that charity, I don’t want to help. Screw Black History, I’m not gonna participate.” Are you really going to try and convince me that this individual would not be judged at all, and that their relationship with their brothers or sisters would not be negatively effected? What we do with our personal life (or even the beliefs we may personally hold) is our own business, unless it effects the lives of others or the reputations of our family, places of employment, organizations, or institutions. At that point, it is no longer our own personal business. Slavery was not a personal choice, becasue it destroyed the lives of others. Abortion is not a personal choice, because it destroys the life of an innocent child. In fact, most of our so-called “personal choices” inevitably effect the lives of those around us.
    As Dr. King said, “Whatever effects one directly, effects all indireclty.” In an earlier post I addressed the prevalent Babylonian lie of subjectivism and relativism. We must free ourselves from this illogical thinking!
    If BGO’s want to tell me that they exist only to party and to feel a superficial sense of unity, then I will accept that and not expect anything more from them. But if they claim to be organizations of Black advancement, then I will continue to point out the wiKKKedness that they tolerate, condone, and engage in. I will continue to point out their hypocrisy. And I will continue to challenge them to hold their members accountable for their actions.
    As for Rastafari, I can tell you with certainty that no Rasta man or wombman believes in or condones abortion, sodomy and homosexuality, drug use (the Herb is not a drug!), or politricks. That is why there is true solidarity and brotherhood/sisterhood amongst Rastafari. We are united around righteousness, and united in Almighty JAH and His statutes and guidelines. We are united in following the teachings of His Majesty Haile Selassie I, who taught peace, human brotherhood, and moral righteousness. Yes, we sin too. We are not perfect. But we don’t excuse, justify, or tolerate our sin by dismissing it as a “personal choice.” I can’t control what the next man does, but I can speak out and give him the Truth. Being responsible for our own personal actions means personally taking a stand for what’s right at times. It means confronting our brother or sister when they are going astray. It means helping them to do do right, not assisting them in their wrongs. We not only have a right to “lecture” others on moral Truth, we have a command to do so. Of course we must BEGIN with ourselves, but we must not stop with ourselves. At the end of it all, what really counts will be how our lives effected others. Did we uplift the lives of others, or did we contribute to their demise? Or did we simply make no difference at all? If we ignore the destructive “personal decisions” of others, then we are contributing to their downfall. If we speak out and try to correct them, then we are contributing to their upliftment. Even if they ignore us or reject our efforts, they will remember that someone cared enough to at least try.
    Blessings brran. Good discussion.

  118. Pingback: The Breaking Point » So, who is positively shaping black America?

  119. Marwan says:

    I believe bglos shouldn’t exist.

  120. LH says:

    Marwan, fortunately your opinion doesn’t matter.

  121. *Coop* says:

    Wow. It was a slugfest over here! Much love to ALL the BGLO members, Masonic family and our oppressed minds for continuing to serve our respective communites as we have done for the last century. I definitely understand (to some point) all sides of the argument, but it’s hard for me to ignore the scholarships, the mentorships, internships supervised and the community centers and programs sponsored solely by BGLOs. That’s just in Atlanta. I mean, seriously, I have no less than 5 community service projects to participate in on Saturday with all of my elite Sorors and SiSTARS. smh

    Nice thread brran1.

  122. Marwan says:

    blgos thrive, the black community is in the worst condition ever since slavery.

  123. one of a kind says:

    I find this quite interesting….the black greeks of course….who suppose to be the “uplift of the black community”….oh and by the way….WHO SAID THAT YOU WERE ELITE….elite only brings division and that is exactly what these organizations and any other etc. that aspire to do the same. CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES???? PLEASE….Get out of here….You were not founded on Christian principles because you do not do anything that is really Christian…..what feed the homeless, clothe the naked…..yea…yea..yea….GOD WORKS ALONE WILL NOT GET YOU INTO HEAVEN MY FRIEND! Greek organizations, white, black, Christians, etc, should not have been created because they only symbolize a Christian face with evil and wrong doings behind the scene! Peace. Keep God first!

  124. Black Greeks, White Greeks have their hands in quite a few diabolical pots. No one really knows what goes on in the higher ups of their organizations unless they hae been one. When someone throws me an olive branch, I am sure to check out its roots first. The Negro Project is littered with Greeks and the abortion agenda. Faye Wattleton, Thurgood Marshall and the other 4 or 5 other (Greek) supreme court justices who voted for abortion. Black Greeks have done nothing to deal with the moral ills of the black community that they claim to serve.

  125. jimmy dean says:

    Stop blaming the black frats because we know they are sell outs,cowards,whores to the cracker who’s biggest dream is to huddle up to their white daddy and masta’s feet!The cracker is the black man’s job!Not the women nor the sissyfied integration faggots socalled men!Until we start a cracker body count and start dumping crackers in some damn ditches!We black men need to shut the fu*k up!!!Fu*k the talk DO IT!!!

  126. jimmy dean says:

    To all that note Marcus Garvey met the k.k.k. don’t realize that the free masons and the k.k.k. are one and the same!Scotish rite,york rite and the illegal prince hall are all members of the k.k.k.!!!

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